Julian Togelius, an NYU professor and co-founder of modl.ai, is living the dream of every kid who grew up as a computer geek and gamer. He’s been doing AI research on video games since 2004, back when people told him it wasn’t real research.
So why do most video games still run on behavior trees and dialogue trees when we have LLMs? Julian’s answer is that games are designed not to need AI. Most genres were locked in decades ago, and nobody has figured out how to design a good game around a model that can say anything.
We talk about the state of the game industry and why so many developers there hate AI. Julian also explains why learning a brand new game as fast as a person would is a better test of intelligence than most benchmarks, and why he thinks we built the wrong kind of AI by training it to copy us. Near the end he gets into making games with Claude and where video world models like Genie might fit.
Timeline
0:14 Why games matter for AI
5:21 What counts as AI?
10:02 Why games barely use modern ML
17:36 Why LLM characters break games
20:59 The state of the game industry
27:09 The AI backlash in games
30:41 AI in casual games
36:07 AI-made mods and fake players
40:42 Games as a test of intelligence
47:33 Can GPT-6 beat any game?
51:10 Playing alongside AI agents
53:36 We invented the wrong AI
58:33 Personal assistants and Jeb
1:03:22 Making games with AI
1:07:50 Video world models
1:11:16 Joining Julian’s lab
1:13:48 Favorite games
Topics
Why games are a good testbed for AI
Classic game AI vs machine learning
Why shipped games rarely use neural networks
LLM NPCs and game design
The game industry slump and the AI backlash
AI in mobile games like Candy Crush
AI-generated mods and simulated players
Games as a test of general intelligence
Automated playtesting and reward hacking
Designing games around AI agents
“We invented the wrong AI”
Generating games with code, asset models and world models
Music: "Kid Kodi" by Blue Dot Sessions (CC BY-NC 4.0)
